Tenfold Hate

Carebear Mountain
February 11, 2008, 4:16 pm
Filed under: MMORPGs, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning

Over the past few months, debates have been popping up around the gaming blogosphere prompted by PvEers excited about the promise of meaningful PvP in Warhammer “even though they don’t normally like PvP” and PvPers concerned–and legitimately so–that they don’t want to see WAR watered down for the carebears.

I think many PvPers like to paint a picture of PvEers as geriatric pen-and-paper role-players too squeamish and atrophied from years of playing EQ to take on anything but sluggish, scripted AI adversaries. But this is not the case.

Look at the RPG in it’s purest form: Dungeons and Dragons. The RPG is simply a communal way of interactive storytelling. This is something sorely lacking in MMO PvP.

I enjoy PvP, but it gets awfully boring awfully quickly in its current state. The old school gamers who level criticism at LoTRO and WoW for not having “enough risk” should turn their attentions to PvP rather than shunning it. I personally think it’s laughable to use the word “risk” when we’re talking about computer entertainment, but engaging in combat with other players delivers a sense of excitement that corpse runs or real time travel–no matter how long–ever will.

We play MMOs because other players add a wonderful sense of life to the worlds we inhabit online. Good PvP IS good PvE because both ideally involve participating in an engaging story, having an impact on the virtual world we’re playing in, and working with others towards a shared goal.

It’s the current state of MMORPGs that fuel these divisions between the camps because in most every game after Ultima Online, PvP and PvE are mutually exclusive (WoW) or PvP is totally pointless (V:SoH).

If PvP is implemented in a more creative way than me getting griefed for no reason by some immature jackass venting his poxy teenage angst–or me mindlessly grinding out honor for gear rewards, numb to the ultimate outcome of the battle–that’d be a healthy baby step. And if there were implications for the ganker and the gankee–both good and bad, now that’d make things interesting.



I’d point out that PVP is pointless in WOW as well.

The problem with PVP and a lot of folks in the PVP community is that they like Wolf-VS-Sheep PVP. They want to dominate the weaker players and spend their nights dominating them like PVE players dominate NPC’s. Problem with that formula is that it’s not that fun to be the sheep for months and months on end. Someone in this equation is going to be disappointed, and there is no way around that.

Comment by Genda

PvP is typically pointless — or perhaps more to the point, meaningless — in most traditional MMO’s. WoW at least has various ranks with various rewards to offer. LOTRO’s PvP is also completely separated and still needs tweaking but they keep giving it attention with each update, and personally I find it a fun and interesting diversion.

I typically avoid the so-called “open PvP” games because, regardless what the so-called more mature PvPers claim that the nature of open PvP discourages ganking, griefing, and other asshattery, I don’t buy it for a second, and I doubt most PvE-ers do either.

Having said that, I am really looking forward to Earthrise, precisely because in addition to finally giving a skills-based advancement system (thank you, thank you…) instead of this levels and gear garbage, it also will have meaningful PvP and I’m all for it. WAR… I could give exactly two shits about. The fanboys need to step out of their bubble and come back to earth: EA is involved and the *only* reason they allowed Mythic to delay launch to polish it up is because they’re after big subscription numbers, and that means “watering it down.” Period. A purely PvP-centric game is a niche game and that’s not EA’s modus operandi.

Comment by Talyn

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